Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. Over the years the US Army has become firmly entrenched in the German landscape. I say 16 months because his orders were involuntarily extended because he was in the ROK when the USS Pueblo was taken. One would fly overhead about every 60 seconds, remembers the professor emeritus of political science at Saint Louis University. Dotted around US bases are numerous residential districts for American soldiers and their families, such as this residential district in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim. I know that was very dependent upon where you called home, but that was my reality, Thornton said. As my husband likes to preach: expectation management.. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. So many popular movies feature the combat side of war ground combat or maybe the air war. The winners toured other military bases and made records. No matter where veterans served in Vietnam, they were a close witness to danger. I was in Boston when the Chelsea fire occurred in October 1973, received a meritorious unit citation for fighting the fire that consumed a large portion of Chelsea 18 blocks one way, 16 blocks another. Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Army Staff Medal First Class and is the author of four books about Vietnam including The War Everyone Lost and Won.. The challenge was figuring out what the enemy would do. When we got home, everybody was the same, said Lomperis, a Saigon warrior who served in a support capacity at MACV (U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam), also known as mafia HQ or Pentagon East.. As opposed to the goldbug society, or service personnel who were not interested in meeting locals and learning about Vietnam, Lomperis sought out opportunities to get off the base and interact with the Vietnamese. Hitt says he had already been in one Army band by the time he joined the group. I volunteered for the draft and was sent to Ft. Lewis, Wa. Youre in the hot seat. During World War 2 Volunteering for the draft was a common term, that is that after a point enlistment in the Army was halted for the duration, only draftees where accepted (This is for the Army only, the Navy and Marine Corps still took enlistees), and if a 18 year old or in many cases older guys in their 20s/30s who have not yet received a notice, or had a deferment, and gave up their deferment could "Volunteer for the Draft", this also applied (within the Army) for those 17 year old's who wanted to go into the Army. Lomperis served two tours of duty in Vietnam in the Army and Defense Intelligence Agency. VA decides these claims on a case-by-case basis. At any moment all hell could break loose, Lair said. You will now be able to tab or arrow up or down through the submenu options to access/activate the submenu links. He was stationed in Gillenhausen, protecting a valley called Folda Gap. He remembers his commanding officer Abrams as a political genius who turned the war around.. The US Army employed 17,000 American civilians in Germany in 2019. Given the popular conception that being drafted during Vietnam was a guaranteed ticket to the combat zone, Ive always found it amazing how many of the people I know who served in the Army or USMC during the Vietnam War never actually went to Vietnam. When support servicemen crossed paths with combat troops, We felt guilty. This large and rapid buildup required a tremendous amount of construction, carried out by Army Engineers and largely financed by occupied Germany. Maybe they didnt risk their lives but they risked risking their lives, said Meredith Lair, a Vietnam War historian at George Mason University and author of Armed with Abundance: Consumerism and Soldiering in the Vietnam War, which examines the non-combat experiences of American soldiers in Vietnam. oakleaf777, Is it if you might be in danger of a mortar attack versus projecting violence and delivering it to the enemy? During the era of the Vietnam War, American troops and facilities were neglected forcing Engineers to marshal their slender resources augmented by host nation contributions to keep American forces ready for war and take care of Army and Air Force personnel and their families. Buddy C. Thornton learned from his military service was Always live for the day. One of the toughest parts of service was seeing people whose lives were ruined or lost because of the war, he said. They proudly served their country, but were derided by combat troops as REMFs or rear echelon mother (insert expletive here), Appy said. Lockbourne/Rickenbacker Air Force Base in Ohio (906th and 907th Tactical Air Groups or 355th and 356th Tactical Airlift Squadron), Westover Air Force Base in Massachusetts (731st Tactical Air Squadron and 74th Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron), Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, International Airport (758th Airlift Squadron). We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. Your message has not been sent. If you have health concerns about Agent Orange, talk to your health care provider or contact yourlocal VA Environmental Health Coordinatorto help you get more information from a health care provider. One strong memory I have is how tough it was for the families, Thornton said. It was a huge fire. Our AIT class in 1971 at A.P.G. You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. Office of Accountability & Whistleblower Protection, Training - Exposure - Experience (TEE) Tournament, Military Exposure Related Health Concerns, War Related Illness & Injury Study Center, Clinical Trainees (Academic Affiliations), Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, local VA Environmental Health Coordinator, Find out if you qualify for VA health care, diseases related to Agent Orange exposure, Call TTY if you It's from here that controversial drone missions are flown against targets in Africa and Asia. Many veterans struggled with feeling that their experience didnt measure up. WebActivated during the Vietnam War, the Brigade oversaw all Military Police operations in the country for a large portion of the conflict, undertaking a wide variety of missions throughout the country and providing command and control for other military police groups in the region. Hollander says it isn't clear what the Army planned to do with these recordings, especially since so few copies of them have surfaced just three dozen in East of Underground's case. Some people feel the term Vietnam veteran should refer only to those who served in Vietnam, but the U.S. government defines them all as Vietnam-era veterans according to the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 any veteran who served on active duty during the official time frame of the Vietnam War (1961-1975). I ask this because many guys of draft age enlisted, enlisted specifically for three years to chose their MOS, and in a great many cases avoid serving in South Vietnam. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. The big problem was that Saigon was Sodom and Gomorrah. He is seen here waving to his fans at Bremerhaven train station. Even as the war drew down in 1975 and early 1976, the pressure was intense as huge numbers of men came home with addictions and injuries too horrible to really describe, Thornton said. The report determined that it is possible that this exposure contributed to some adverse health effects. On leave, Thornton would head home to see family and friends, but the war changed things. At the end of his service, Shkurti was an executive officer with the 6th Armored Cavalry at Fort Meade, Maryland. Both Germany and Vietnam were on the front lines of the Cold War. Please switch auto forms mode to off. I personally met over the years quite a few guys in my neighborhood that enlisted in the Army, 3 years like you said, interesting thing was that not one served in South Vietnam, even up to two duty station changes, in example serving in CONUS then Panama, etc, I recall one guy I met in a bar who enlisted for 3 1967-70, an Ordnance guy, said he served his whole three years after Basic (Bliss) and AIT (Aberdeen) as wheeled vehicle mechanic at West Point, you know in the regular army component at the academy. visit VeteransCrisisLine.net for more resources. Ukraine updates: Zelenskyy urges more effective air defense, Ukraine: Russia continues to target civilian sites, Ukraine's counteroffensive: Goals, opportunities, risks. Here are a few of their stories. For guys drafted during Vietnam, what really were the odds they would be sent to Vietnam as opposed to remaining stateside, or sent to Germany or Korea? "I initially was stationed in Korea. It's also a mystery what happened to the bands apart from Lewis Hitt, none of the members have come forward. The songs East of Underground played weren't your run-of-the-mill patriotic marches in fact, some of them included controversial lyrics about race and politics. The fatigues were faded and had rips. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY I talked to many men who felt sheepish that they didnt have those (combat) stories to share, Lair said. The question became: When will someone tell what my war was like? Lair said. One colonel joked, If we ever really got attacked, the V.C. "I'm just amazed that [the band's] three singers didn't have hit records after they left the Army. The band formed while its members were stationed in Germany during the Vietnam War. 4) The Alps Swiss, German or French. Why is Netflix pouring billions into South Korean shows? According to the report, from 1972 to 1982, approximately 1,500 to 2,100 Air Force Reserve personnel trained and worked on C-123 aircraft that previously had been used to spray herbicides, including Agent Orange, in Vietnam. The tensions between the two sides were demonstrated when US Army and Soviet Union tanks faced off in a divided Berlin. I am focused on peace and conflict reduction on a global and local scale, he said. You pull together under a common enemy, Shkurti said. The enemy was the Soviet Union and the other signatories of the Warsaw Pact, including the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. Even before Erhard succeeded Konrad Adenauer as West Germany's second chancellor, the conflict in Vietnam had They have rock climbing, paddle boarding, BBQ grills, a restaurant, hiking trails, and more. That was where I met my wife. Those aircraft were used for military airlift, medical transport, and cargo transport operations in the United States and internationally. ". It was painful to even be around them. From the end of World War II until the end of the war in Southeast Asia, the Army component command in Germany, the U.S. Army, Europe (USAREUR), managed military construction in the theater with its own Engineer organizations. They were touted as filling an important gap in NATO's deterrent shield against the Warsaw Pact. The King of Rock 'n' Roll, as Elvis Presley would eventually become known, was drafted in as a soldier and began his military service in Germany in 1958. The men and women at the main bases such as Saigon, Cam Ranh, Da Nang, Bien Hoa and Long Binh had a fairly sedentary life and plenty of downtime compared to combat soldiers, Lair said. TCDD, the toxic substance in Agent Orange, may be inhaled as an aerosol or ingested by contaminated food or water or from hand-to-mouth transfer. They also ate pretty well. 9) Luxembourg But in Vietnam, the Cold War became an inferno. In the early years, dances were held on the streets of Berlin in summer months and in winter, the US Army organized Christmas parties for local children. Boy, I thought I had it made, Shkurti said with a small laugh. You guessed it, my last name started with a T. Got a question 11Cav, during the Vietnam era/60s early 70s period, was there a difference between volunteering for the draft and outright enlisting? Powered by Invision Community, Vietnam Era Draftees Stationed in W.Germany, South Korea, and CONUS, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. So he was off to Camp Casey and the 9th Infantry Manchu's for 16 months, I was in the same unit a couple of decades after him. Combat veterans offered a truly unique and special contribution to the war, but that doesnt mean it wasnt a sacrifice for people who served as support, Lair said. Many celebrities joined in the protests. Like all the other members, he was a draftee, and had come from a tiny town in Mississippi. We served honorably. They left their families to fight in a war that wasnt popular. The following individuals may qualify for benefits related to Agent Orange exposure: Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to Agent Orange residue on post-Vietnam C-123 airplanes. I thought it would be easy, but it was actually tough, said Shkurti, who served as a fire direction officer and supervised a six-person team. WebThe entirety of Germany was occupied and administered by the Allies of World War II from the Berlin Declaration on 5 June 1945 to the establishment of West Germany on 23 May 1949. Still, a ration card would allow personnel to buy $2,000 to $3,000 worth of goods, she said. Heavily guarded Pershing-II rockets were brought to the US base in Mutlangen in 1983. He also wrote the liner notes, which reveal a surprising fact: The U.S. Army spends an estimated $200 million a year on music, and is the largest single employer of musicians in the country. Especially from the minority groups, our black comrades, because they bore the brunt of the draft, were very unappreciated, and made the ultimate sacrifice above and beyond other groups, and for what? Thornton said. I was able to get into a band there. This is not about being negative or complaining, but simply having a balanced outlook for your transition. WebIn An Army in Crisis Alexander Vazansky analyzes the social crisis that developed among the U.S. Army forces stationed in Germany between 1968 and 1975. HMD found that Reservists who served as flight crew (pilot, navigator, flight engineer, and loadmaster), ground maintenance crew, and aero-medical personnel had regular contact with the aircraft, and would have experienced some exposure to chemicals from herbicide residue. In addition to meeting locals, walks off-base could provide valuable intelligence. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. The U.S. has had personnel stationed in Germany and South Korea, two of its military allies, for several decades, yet the number of active-duty troops in each country is at a modern low. She served me milk and cookies, and we have been together now for 44 years, Thornton said. The US soldiers also brought American culture to Germany. Six out of seven served on bases. When we graduated we lined up in front of a building that you entered one at a time on one side and after getting your paper work you exited out the other side. As the Soviet system, like the Berlin Wall, collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, it appeared that American and allied forces in Europe had accomplished their mission without war. WebHere are our top 13 places to see while youre stationed in Germany: (click on any city name below to learn more) 1) Prague, Czech Republic. I was thinking I would have a better chance of determining where I would be sent.. They were the rear echelon. I had surgery shortly after the fire, then spent convalescent leave in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force used C-123 aircraft to spray Agent Orange to clear jungles that provided enemy cover in Vietnam. 8) Bruges, Belgium. Most of his time was spent protecting government buildings from Vietnam War protesters. After graduating AIT at Fort Knox I was sent to their NCO Armor School. From sundries like razors and cigarettes, apple juice and chocolate milk to diamond jewelry and Rolex watches, stereos and kitchen appliances, servicepeople could buy just about anything even cars for their wives or girlfriends back home, said Lomperis. Ammunition storage facility, Heilbronn, West Germany (left); I served at the naval hospital in Chelsea, Massachusetts, for 18 months. He wasn't wealthy or connected in anyway and he also had an Infantry MOS and he was one of three soldiers out of his basic training platoon that went to the ROK. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. For military intelligence officer Timothy Lomperis, the constant whup, whup, whup of helicopters flying overhead is one of many things that stand out in his mind about the time he spent helping make critical war decisions in Saigon serving under Gen. Creighton Abrams, commander of U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam, from 1968 to 1972. Active duty personnel who served in a regular USAF unit location where a contaminated C-123 was assigned who had regular contact with the aircraft through flight, ground, or medical duties between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. A rare photo of East of Underground in performance. There were Viet Cong all over the place, but if you were street-smart you stayed safe, Lomperis said. 2. Error, please try again. When they got home they were all the same (veterans), but they did not all have an equal experience. They were also stationed in Germany, Japan, Thailand, Philippines, Korea, Guam and the continental United States. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. You could watch The Beverly Hillbillies, Appy said. I thought, hot dog, going to go relic hunting. Youth activity centers in Germany included this facility in Wiesbaden. The Ramstein base is especially significant, since it is also headquarters of the United States Air Forces in Europe. There were more prostitutes than bureaucrats, and every kind of club and bar from high-class to low-class. They wore dirty boots and dog tags hanging around their necks. The family moved to Phoenix, Arizona, where they have been for the past 40 years. Their story got eliminated. They lived in an apprehensive state. In their spare time, servicepeople could go to the library, join a service club or take a spin on the go-kart track. Out of our entire class I believe two, maybe three guys got orders for Korea. After the defeat of Germany, the relatively small American force in Europe was preoccupied with the administration and reconstruction of their former foe. Being a noncombatant doesnt mean they didnt feel scared, that there wasnt a looming sense of danger even onthe biggest bases that were considered safer areas, Lair said. Deploy network infrastructure faster and easier than ever before, with pre-packaged yet massively scalable infrastructure components for top packet and optical systems. To access the menus on this page please perform the following steps. Veterans must show on a factual basis that they were exposed in order to receive disability compensation for diseases related to Agent Orange exposure. The sky swarmed with helicopters. Not enrolled in the VA health care system? American expenditures on construction in Europe declined sharply. 877-222-8387, TDD (Hearing Impaired) I was in Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk Nov. 68-Jan 69. I expected it would be worse in Vietnam, but it was a more satisfying experience, Shkurti said. 800-829-4833, Veterans Crisis Line: 2 weeks before we graduated they told us, " Class 17, RVN". Today, he cautions people not to draw quick lessons from the war. Right, I got you, very interested to know that fine point. Thats not how the military works, though. However, their wartime ally, the Soviet Union, soon became an enemy. 3. I can only speak from my own experiences. He was friendly with street urchins who would badger him for chocolate and other small treats. Even today, many see otherwise, but only at home., One place the guys in the rear and combat soldiers would cross paths was at rearward bases, which ranged from isolated fire bases less than a city block in size to major bases like Long Binh Post that resembled an American city, said Chris Appy, author of three books about the American war in Vietnam: American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity, Patriots: The Vietnam War Remembered from All Sides and Working- Class War: American Combat Soldiers and Vietnam.. From the end of World War II in 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991, Army Engineers played a key role in providing the facilities for arming, supplying, training, and housing American soldiers and airmen and their families in Europe. Despite separate residential districts, there has always been contact and exchange between German and American families. After Nazi Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, four countries representing the Allies (the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and France) asserted joint authority Find out if you qualify for VA health care. If you are in crisis or having thoughts of suicide, The chow halls tried to replicate moms home cooking with menus of grilled hamburgers, roast beef with gravy, French-fried potatoes, mashed potatoes, buttered corn and asparagus, ice cream, vanilla pudding and cherry pie, Lair said. Additionally, not all Vietnam-era veterans served in-country. His unit lost more men to overdose and traffic accidents in Germany than to combat in Vietnam. He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. If you call it wrong, thousands of people could end up being killed, he said. It was still no guarantee you wouldn't be sent to Vietnam and in some cases even be sent to do something else besides what you trained for. and child care facility in Bad Kreuznach, West Germany (right). With pressures on USAREUR in the mid-1970s to reduce the size of its headquarters and budget, the command asked the Corps of Engineers to take responsibility for military construction in the theater. The mood around the country was not good for the military, not like today with cheers and applause for returning members. None would be here if Vietnam never happened, so it creates bittersweet feelings but no regrets, Thornton said. Situated in a remote area with the enemy about 300 yards away over the border, Shkurtis unit was constantly in harms way. Is it just the guy with the gun? The experience that most people likely associate with Vietnam is the horror and deprivation of war, so its ironic that that wasnt the real experience of most Vietnam veterans, Lair said. 3) Paris, France. One of the biggest lessons Dr. If I am sad about anything Vietnam-war, it is how other global players view that period of history when compared to the American perspective. WebDuring the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force used C-123 aircraft to spray Agent Orange to clear jungles that provided enemy cover in Vietnam. Mastering these complicated and delicate international arrangements, EUD accomplished a large and complex construction program, especially during the 1980s. GRAFENWOEHR, Germany More than 30 veterans of the Vietnam War living in Germany were awarded pins Tuesday by the local Veterans of Foreign Wars post in recognition of their service. I assisted a medical officer suture up a Marine after a bar fight who was so drunk he didnt need an anesthetic. You had no say in what your MOS would be. But as the confrontation between the Soviet Union, our former ally, intensified with the Berlin blockade and the outbreak of the Korean War, American leaders grew fearful that the next target of international communism was Western Europe, which contained our most important democratic allies and a rapidly rebuilding capitalist economy. Over 220 others have already been closed, mostly following the end of the Cold War in the 1990s. With two sons already in the war, they felt I should not go. 2018 Petabit Scale, All Rights Reserved. Ukrainian soldiers find remains of German WWII soldiers, LGBTQ+ rights situation at home drives young Slovaks abroad, Remembering the horrors of Colonia Dignidad in Chile. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. The guys with the gear in the rear. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. 7th Army in particular suffered heavily, especially with loses of combat arms NCOs Then To prop up sinking morale and keep soldiers safe on base rather than heading into Vietnamese towns, the U.S. military strove to make bases as home-like as possible, Appy said. Arriving in West Germany, was a shocking experience for the new Army recruit. The stress of military life was constant. "I met the singers and the other players and we got together and played, and it just kind of all meshed together.". My middle brother died five years ago from extended PTSD and the ravages of the drug addiction he endured while trying to cope with his memories from Vietnam. While older Germans were friendly, younger ones were hostile and aloof, Shkurti said. Home was tough because my parents did not agree with my volunteering. He says it was completely random, some bodies had to go to 7th Army and his lucky number came up. Saigon was considered relatively safe, but life wasnt easy and violence erupted. Back at home over the decades, veterans themselves may have helped camouflage the roles they played during the war. During the war, these men felt like they were part of the military endeavor, but its not what the public celebrates. Reservists who were assigned to flight, ground, or medical crew duties at the following locations between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. was told," you are going to Germany, get your wives in german class". His unit in Germany lacked the leadership and necessities to get their job done, he said. We wore different uniforms. He was with the 3rd Infantry Division in Schweinfurt. So there was a great need for personnel outside South Vietnam through out the entire period, and the refusal to mobilize the Reserves and National Guard only exacerbated the problem. In Vietnam everyone knew everyone and what job they had. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Vietnam has come to symbolize certain things that arent necessarily true. Another difference was the sense of solidarity he felt. If you dig into it, it becomes a very grey war, he said. Those recordings were lost for decades, until a collector discovered an East of Underground LP in 1997. Its kind of like playing goalie for a soccer team.
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